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[Réglé] SK2 attaque contre un canon

Hors ligne Musashi

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Après avoir maîtrisé à peu près le SK1, je continue mon exploration du SK2. J'avais déjà trouvé la présentation du SK1 un peu tortueuse, mais je patauge encore plus avec le SK2.
Dans le 6-7 "Tir contre des canons", seule l'attaque par un canon contre un canon semble être envisagée ("Une fois qu'un canon est touché suite à la procédure de To Hit...").
L'infanterie (sans bazooka) avec ou sans MG ne peut-elle tirer sur un canon? Peut-elle tirer sur le crew à part du canon (je pense que non, mais je n'en suis pas sûr)? Peut-elle entrer en CC avec le crew dans l'hexagone du canon?

Merci pour vos réponses (pas urgent, je pars en vacance...avec le SK2)
« Modifié: 18 Juillet 2010, 18:39 par Musashi »
La vie est courte, ce sont les emmerdements qui la font paraître longue... (Gérard Lanvin)


Hors ligne Psywarrior

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Effectivement, l'infanterie ennemie peut tirer sur le crew.

Concernant l'utilisation des LATW contre un canon, voir ci-dessous un copié collé du RB Full qui me semble effectivement un peu plus parlant que le RB du SK
Tu eux effectivement entrer en CC avec le crew d'une manière tout-à-fait normale.
Ne pas oublier que si la LOS traverse le CA du canon et que ce dernier dispose d'un bouclier, le crew reçoit un DRM +2.

Voici l'extrait :
11.4 DIRECT HIT: Once a hit is secured (or in the case of OBA/DC attacks which do not need hits), the firer rolls on the IFT to determine the effects on the crew and Gun. If the Final DR (prior to any gunshield DRM) results in a KIA vs the Gun (after any necessary Random Selection), the Gun is considered to have taken a Direct Hit and is destroyed along with its manning Infantry. A K result is also considered a Direct Hit, although it does not actually strike the Gun; rather it causes the Gun to malfunction and causes Casualty Reduction to its manning Infantry [EXC: if AP was fired; 11.52]. Gunshield DRM never apply to Direct Hit. If the IFT DR does not result in a Direct Hit, the hit is considered a Near Miss and the +2 DRM for any gunshield is applied (if applicable) to the same DR to determine the effect (if any) on the manning Infantry. Even unattended Guns must check for elimination. Gunshield modifiers are lowered by one to +1 vs all forms of Indirect Fire. A CH automatically destroys both the Gun and its manning Infantry.
 
   11.5 GUNSHIELDS: All AT and INF Guns have gunshields which help protect their manning crew. A gunshield helps protect the Good Order manning crew (only) of a Gun from most attacks which originate within its current CA. Other Infantry in the same hex, even if serving as an ad hoc crew, receive no benefit from the gunshield. Infantry moving to a Gun or pushing it while being attacked by Defensive First Fire is not entitled to any protective DRM from its gunshield, nor is manning Infantry attack by any means from the Gun's own hex ever entitled to protective DRM from its gunshield. A manning crew protected by a gunshield may add +2 to the IFT DR of fire vs that manning crew [EXC: +0 for FT (A22.2) and +1 for Indirect Fire (11.4)]. The gunshield DRM is never cumulative with that of positive TEM; the target has its choice of accepting either the gunshield DRM (if applicable) or the positive TEM of the terrain (including Emplacement; 11.2) in that Location. A gunshield does not have to be penetrated for HE fire to affect the Gun/its-crew, and protects the Gun and such Infantry from ordnance hits only insomuch as the application of the gunshield modifier of the IFT DR of all Near Miss hits may lessen any MC level sustained. A gunshield DRM never affects a To Hit DR< but can be used to modify the effects of a Near Miss Hit even if a TEM was already used to modify the To Hit attempt.
 
   EX: Continuing the second 11.2 EX, the PzKpfw IVH hits all three targets with an Original To Hit DR of 5. The AFV's 75mm MA attacks all three on the 12 FP column of the IFT. An Original IFT DR of 6 would (if unmodified) result in a 2MC, qualifying as a Near Miss vs the AT Guns. If the attack originated within the CA of the Guns and the Guns were manned by crews, they would each receive a +2 DRM to the IFT DRM due to their gunshields, changing the 2 MC result to a 1MC. An Original IFT DR of 3 on the 12 FP column results in a K/3, which (depending upon Random Selection) may result in a Direct Hit vs ≥ 1 Gun, eliminating any affect crews; any of Guns not selected for the K result will receive the +2 gunshield DRM, changing the 3MC to a 2MC. (If the result had been a 1KIA instead, all units not selected for the KIA result would be broken). An 8-3-8 squad stacking both crewed Guns through their CA at normal range attacks on the 8 FP column. The non-emplaced Gun receives a +2 gunshield DRM regardless of the Original IFT DRM since Infantry fire cannot secure a Direct Hit; the emplaced Gun receives either the +2 Emplacement TEM or the +2 gunshield DRM.
 
   11.51 HEAT destroys a Gun using the same mechanics as an HE hit, except that it uses HE Equivalency (8.31). A FT/MOL attack destroys a Gun using Random SW Destruction (A9.74) but is slightly more effective than MG/Small Arms Fire because gunshields never modify a FT attack or a FG which includes only units attacking from outside the Gun's CA and/or using MOL.
 
   11.52 AP: AP/APCR/APDS/ATR hits vs a Gun are resolved using the same mechanics as HE hits, but using HE Equivalency (8.31). The Gun and any manning Infantry are destroyed by a CH/any K/KIA result. A MG attacking alone, an ATR attack as Small Arms, or an ATR/MG attacking as part of a FG, may cause Gun Destruction only as per A9.74.
 
   11.6 DESTRUCTION TABLE: The above rules for Gun Destruction are summarized on the Table below.
 
   GUN DESTRUCTION TABLE1
   Ordnance/Bomb/OBA   MG/IFE/Small Arms/FT2/MOL2/OVR   DC   
≤ Final4 KIA   Elim3   Random SW/Gun Dest   Elim   
= Final4 K   Malf-CR5   NA   Malf-CR   
= CH   Elim3   NA   NA   
Elim: Gun and manning Infantry are eliminated
Malf-CR: Gun is malfunctioned; manning Infantry suffers Casualty Reduction
Random SW/Gun Dest: Check for Random SW/Gun Destruction (A9.74)
1If in tow or being (un)hooked, a Gun can only be destroyed if its vehicle is (C12.1-.12).
2Gunshield is NA to FT/MOL - "only" attack (11.51).
3If there are Personnel in the Location, unpossessed Guns check for Random SW/Gun Destruction if KIA achieved via Indirect Fire.
4Prior to applying Gunshield DRM (11.4)
5K result = Elim if AP was fired (11.52)
 
Bien à toi et bonnes vacances
Thierry
SK2 (GER) vs Eggdrop (RUS)
129 (GER) vs Fanf (RUS)


Hors ligne Robin Reeve

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Pour répondre plus directement à ta question.

On peut tirer sur l'IFT contre le crew - et pas directement sur le Canon, qui ne peut éventuellement être détruit qu'à la suite d'un KIA contre le crew.

Si le canon est Emplaced, le crew bénéficie d'un +2 DRM.
Autrement, si le canon est un AT ou un INF, le +2 du Gunshield le protège - mais seulement pour un tir passant par son CA.

Le CC est évidemment permis contre un crew (c'est de l'Infanterie comme une autre).

Remarque pratique : en général on neutralise plus facilement un canon en lui tirant dessus avec l'IFT qu'avec un tir d'Ordnance (EXC : si on l'enfume avec du Smoke) ;-)
"Votre manière de penser quand vous perdez détermine combien de temps passera avant que vous gagniez."
G.K. Chesterton


Hors ligne Musashi

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Merci à Psywarrior pour l'exhaustivité de la réponse ('va falloir que je passe au Full, ça me paraît plus clair...).
Merci à Montagu pour la précision et la remarque (que je vais mettre en oeuvre dans le prochain scénario!).

 ;-)  ;-)  ;-)  ;-)
La vie est courte, ce sont les emmerdements qui la font paraître longue... (Gérard Lanvin)


Hors ligne Psywarrior

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De rien, bonne fin de dimanche
SK2 (GER) vs Eggdrop (RUS)
129 (GER) vs Fanf (RUS)